Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/22/2001 03:30 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 80-LEGAL HOURS FOR SALE OF ALCOHOL Number 0048 CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the committee would hear HOUSE BILL NO. 80, "An Act relating to the hours during which sale of alcohol and entry on licensed premises is allowed; and providing for an effective date." [Before the committee, adopted as a work draft on 3/14/01, was a proposed committee substitute (CS), 22- LS0290\C, Ford, 3/8/01.] CHAIR MURKOWSKI explained that the committee had received a stack of information regarding HB 80, along with correspondence from Michael T. Lohman, President, M. Lohman Investment Inc., with over 2200 signatures opposing the legislation. REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of HB 80, recognized receipt of the additional signatures. He added that the handout entitled "1998 Alaska Traffic Accidents" from the Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, October 1999, shows the accidents: starting about 10 p.m., there were 157 accidents; between 12 and 2 a.m., 181; and between 2 and 4 a.m., 143. He said it is anecdotal evidence but it points out that there is a problem later at night. If anyone can tell him what good comes from drinking between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m., other than tavern and bar owners making money, he said he is "all ears." Number 0385 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he has ridden with the troopers in his district numerous times and has seen the driving while intoxicated (DWIs) happen after 2 a.m. He said this bill is a proactive rather than a reactive approach. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN remarked that the Matanuska-Susitna area ("valley") has been infamous for being the marijuana-growing capital of the state, and now the valley has the "we stay open until 5 a.m." attitude. In the state with the highest per- capita consumption of alcohol, he said, it sends the message that having the bars open late is condoned by the state. Number 0601 HOWARD SCAMAN, Secretary, Council on Alcohol Abuse and Public Safety-Alaska, Inc. (CAAPS), via teleconference, said he represents the "old 2-10 coalition," the Anchorage bar hours back in 1981. He said this bill should have passed 18 years ago, but the ball was dropped. He said it is tragic that this has gone on for so long, and Representative Ogan is right in saying that there is no reason to have drinking after 2 a.m. He explained that this bill would discourage excessive drinking. MR. SCAMAN added that the Council on Alcohol Abuse and Public Safety is officially on record in support of HB 80. Number 0700 PAM WATTS, Executive Director, Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse, asked the committee to pass HB 80. She said the board believes that current state law that disallows bar owners to sell alcohol between 5 a.m. and 8 a.m. daily contributes to the likelihood of drunk driving between communities with differing hours of operation. A number of communities, she explained, have reduced hours of liquor sales and set 2 a.m. as a closing time. Some residents of these communities who live near areas with less restrictive hours drive to nearby communities to continue drinking until closure, and then drive home, thus posing serious potential danger to other drivers. MS. WATTS pointed out a recent incident in which two intoxicated drivers, one coming from the Anchorage area and one from Mat-Su, actually crashed into one another. Number 0817 MS. WATTS stated that the advisory board believes by reducing access to alcohol during the early morning hours, the incidence of DWIs can be reduced; this would make the roadways safer for all who must drive during these hours. She said [the advisory board] believes that the high rate of alcohol-related injuries and fatalities in Alaska warrants every effort to reduce the number of alcohol-impaired drivers on the roads. She would like to see this type of legislation passed into law because it is one way to begin changing community norms. Alaska has the reputation of being "freewheeling" and open, a hard-drinking state. Until "we" stop focusing only on cleaning up the "wreckage" from these incidents and start focusing on making some changes in community norms, it will be difficult to make positive headway. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked Ms. Watts what other communities she is aware of where a person can drive from one community to another with differing bar hours, other than Anchorage, Palmer, and Kenai. Number 0896 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded that the City of Seward closes its bars at 2 a.m. and there is a bar on the other side of the city limit that stays open until 5 a.m. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked if there were any other examples across the state that could be cited, because according to the information provided by Representative Ogan's office, many of the communities have instituted reduced bar hours on their own. He asked whether HB 80 is an attempt to pass legislation to deal with a local issue in Anchorage or to make a statewide public policy. He commented that it sounds like a local issue. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN remarked that it would be a statewide issue because it is a statewide law; however, the legislature has to make a policy call. Most of the major municipalities have done it already, he explained, and due to the cities' being so far apart from each other, it is not a problem. The legislature is the local government for the unincorporated areas in the state, and [the legislature] is saying that it is "our" policy call to make. Number 1040 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Ms. Watts what time of evening that accident occurred. MS. WATTS responded that it was 3 a.m. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if the people involved in the collision were both from Anchorage. Number 1137 MATT FELIX, Director, National Council on Alcoholism, answered that the people coming from Anchorage had all been drinking in a bar and were heading to the valley to drink more; this information was reported to the state trooper. He clarified that the other driver had been in a bar in the Wasilla area and was also intoxicated. And when asked if the ABC Board had cited the bar owners for serving more than the required limit by law, he responded that he did not know. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN clarified that both drivers were charged with assault on each other. He cited another case from last winter in which a woman left a Wasilla bar, drove onto a lake, and went through the ice at 5 or 6 a.m. There have been a lot of cases, he remarked. Number 1314 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said the last time this bill was heard the focus was on local control. The City of Wasilla had sent a resolution saying it opposes HB 80; he asked Representative Ogan if he knew why. And he commented that sometimes the good of the whole state needs to be taken into account. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said his friends in Wasilla are conservatives and believe in local control; however, if the policy isn't consistent statewide, there are problems. REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO asked if Representative Ogan had seen the fax from Joan Diamond, Injury Prevention Specialist, Division of Public Health, Department of Health and Social Services, dated March 21, 2001. He referred to a chart showing the number of fatal alcohol-related crashes between 12 and 6 a.m.; he pointed out that 45.4 percent happen during this time period. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that one should also factor in that bars in Anchorage close much earlier now. Number 1371 REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said [the Anchorage Assembly] considered changing the bar hours from 3 a.m. on weekends to an earlier time; however, even going from 5 to 3 a.m., [Anchorage] had a rash of after-hours clubs opening up, and there is no control of them. He said [after-hours clubs] are hard to bust because they have secret codes [to get in] and so forth. He asked Representative Ogan if there is concern that more after-hours clubs could open. Number 1431 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that it is a possibility, although he didn't know how much concern there was. REPRESENTATIVE MEYER commented that during his days on the Anchorage Assembly a balance was reached by having the bars close at 2 a.m. during the week and 3 a.m. on the weekends. [The situation] was bad when Anchorage's bars were open until 5 a.m., he said. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said this would mitigate it somewhat; however, there are always people who, if they want to get drunk, will have the booze that was purchased at a package store earlier. Nonetheless, this would probably cut down on a lot of it and send a message that Alaska isn't the "party state" anymore. The young people are probably the most susceptible to that attitude and mentality, he remarked. Number 1569 REPRESENTATIVE MEYER pointed out that the other thing discussed [by the Anchorage Assembly] was how early the 8 a.m. bar opening time was. In Anchorage, he said, it is 10 a.m., and he asked if that would be an acceptable amendment. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he wasn't aware that it was different and deferred the decision to the committee. He added that he didn't think there was much business in bars at 8 a.m. Number 1636 CINDY CASHEN, Representative, Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD), stated that she is a victim of drunk driving. On April 19 [2000] a drunk driver in the Anchorage area killed her father. She had some information from Charley Fannon, Chief of Police, Wasilla. MS. CASHEN explained that the information from the City of Wasilla shows people traveling between Anchorage and Wasilla; those are the numbers within the municipality of Wasilla, she pointed out, referring to the committee's handout. REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out that the handout shows the second-highest arrest total comes from Anchorage, and he asked if those are arrests made by the Wasilla Police Department. MS. CASHEN answered affirmatively. REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO followed up by asking if these DWI incidents are as a result of people traveling back and forth. MS. CASHEN again answered affirmatively. Number 1733 MR. FELIX commented on the odds of two intoxicated people running into one another. The odds would be [astronomically high], he said, and it takes 201 times of driving drunk for a person to get his or her first DWI. He pointed out that in the Anchorage Daily News today there was an article about a woman sentenced for fatally injuring another woman early in the morning in Anchorage, and both were intoxicated. The woman received a minimal sentence for creating a fatality because both occupants had been intoxicated. MR. FELIX said this bill will set a standard in the state, one that has been needed since statehood: that [Alaska] will not put up with the "carnage" and the outrageous cost ensued by alcohol abuse and alcoholism in the state, and paying $41,000 to keep a person in prison, 60 percent of whom are there for alcohol-related felonies. He encouraged the committee to move the bill forward. Regarding the issue of local control, he said the state is the governing authority in unincorporated areas to set a standard. Number 1856 MR. FELIX commented that if nothing else, the standard for the state would have been set; [the law] will hold the existing municipalities to that standard, and keep them from reversing it. He said a local issue has local politics, and if [the legislature] sets a standard, local municipalities will see how the state feels about issue. ALVIA "STEVE" DUNNAGAN, Lieutenant, Division of Alaska State Troopers, Department of Public Safety, via teleconference, said he would like to give the committee some firsthand knowledge. He was stationed in Palmer and arrested many drunk drivers from Anchorage who were using the bars in Palmer and Wasilla after those in Anchorage closed. He said [troopers] used to wait for them to come across the flats after 2 a.m., and when there was a visible traffic increase. This bill, he said, would make bar closure hours consistent across the state and would go a long way to help reduce the number of traffic accidents and DWIs on the highways. Number 1924 LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN said four or five years ago, Fairbanks drafted an ordinance and began closing the bars earlier than the state law; and there was a decrease in the number of drunk drivers being arrested. On the other hand, people would leave the Fairbanks city limit and travel to bars outside the borough that were still open until 5 a.m., so there were still some serious accidents that occurred at 4, 5, and 6 a.m. LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN reiterated that this would go a long way to reducing those accidents. It is not a "magic pill" or an end to all of the problems, he explained, but it is a piece of the puzzle that should be assessed along with all of the other alcohol-related legislation. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES said now that the Fairbanks North Star Borough has instituted a borough-wide bar closure time, a person couldn't drive to another part to get alcohol. He said all the testimony heard was about Anchorage, Mat-Su, and Seward, and that he is having a problem instituting a statewide law when the issue is with one area of the state. Number 2028 LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN suggested that if a person wanted to leave Fairbanks or the surrounding area and drive to Nenana only 50 miles away, a person could go there and hang out until 5 a.m. He said if a bar closed at 2 a.m., a person could be in Nenana by 3 a.m. There are still those places where it could happen, he said; for instance, people in Salcha could drive to Delta. Number 2046 GLENN BRADY, President, Silver Gulch Brewery, stated that although he doesn't own a dispensary license he feels compelled to address some issues that have not been brought up. This is a local option, he said, and needs to be made at that level to be receptive to the residents of those areas. And regarding the statements about the fact that Alaska is the "party till 5 in the morning, mayhem sort of place," Mr. Brady said he was born and raised during those times. To say that times are the same now is a vast misrepresentation of the real situation. Alaska now has some of the most stringent alcohol legislation in the country. And regarding the enforcement of existing laws, he said it is already illegal for a licensed establishment to serve an intoxicated person. MR. BRADY said either "we" are not enforcing existing laws or the problem is not the licensed establishment. He added: With the possibility of the gas line and shift work and so forth, what does one do? He said it seems that [the bill] is trying to punish legitimate consumers of alcohol as a result of an irresponsible few. Number 2186 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out that Mr. Brady had said that possibly the focus should be on enforcing existing laws. He said with any type of law on the books, more could be achieved by practicing prevention. This bill, by limiting bar hours, would do that. There was testimony last week from a man who said that his bar normally has 200 people still there at 2 a.m., and by 4:30 a.m. it is down to 20 or 50 people. He said those 200 people are there at 2 a.m. because they know they have another three hours to drink. If the bar closed at 2 a.m., [the bar owner] wouldn't have 200 people there at that time. Number 2230 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO stated that Representative Ogan and others are taking a proactive approach trying to prevent tragedies, and this is the first time he's seen actual data from both the Wasilla Police Department and the state Department of Transportation and Public Facilities that make a correlation between drinking late in the evening and alcohol-related incidents. Normally, "we" had all figured that it was just anecdotal information and testimony. He asked Mr. Brady if he agreed that the legislature should be proactive, in the hope of preventing some of these tragedies. MR. BRADY commented that he agrees with the concept; however, there are laws on the books now that are either not enforceable or [are flawed]. If this remains a local-option issue, he said, wouldn't it be reasonable for Wasilla to elect to close its bars earlier as a result of its population wanted to address the problem? REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO explained that he didn't mean to imply that there were unnecessary statutes on the books. What he is saying is that there are currently laws dealing with DWIs; however, it comes down to manpower for enforcement. In addition, he said, [the state] can avoid the cost of prosecution and the social costs like DWI accidents by practicing prevention. Regarding Mr. Brady's comments about local control, he said he would agree to a certain extent; here there is a situation in which Wasilla has a "carrot" out there for all of the drinkers that want to continue drinking in Anchorage to get on the highway and go to Wasilla. He said [Wasilla] is attracting a crowd out there and impacting the rest of the community, and even impacting Anchorage by having bar hours until 5 a.m.; they also are impacting the troopers and other public safety functions that the state provides. He said [the state] is feeling the effects of their more liberal bar hours and have a responsibility to address that if it isn't addressed locally. Number 2269 MR. BRADY responded that he has a hard time hearing that it is an "imposition" on the state troopers, because that is their function. Again, he returned to the question of whether any licensed establishments were cited as a result of these accidents; by existing laws, they could have been cited and could lose their livelihood as a result of this. He said this is not the way to address them. What is the problem? It is the few irresponsible users who will continue to be a problem regardless of what legislation is on the books. CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that public testimony was officially closed. Number 2400 REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD stated that what is presently being done isn't working, and if this [legislation] saves lives, he is in agreement. Wasilla is attracting drunk drivers on the road by staying open longer. As to the local control issue, he said if people had not taken a stand nationally, there would still be segregated schools in the South. He emphasized the need to pass laws for the greater good. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES followed up on some information he had requested regarding closing times of package stores. CHAIR MURKOWSKI stated that nothing had been received, and that she wasn't sure who had been asked for that information. MR. FELIX stated that Doug Griffen had been asked. TAPE 01-37, SIDE B Number 2450 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said there is a lot of legislation this year, and there isn't one "silver bullet"; this needs to be a comprehensive approach. He mentioned the statistics given to the committee, and specifically those given by the Wasilla Police Department, which show that 45 percent of all the DWI arrests during the second quarter of 1997 and 1998 were of people who didn't live in the area. And in addition to the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' figures, a high percentage of those happened between 12 a.m. and 4 a.m. It is no longer a guessing [game] as to whether it might be causing a problem. The numbers show that there is a problem, and it is [the legislature's] responsibility to take preventive measures. Number 2399 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO referred to the question about whether the bars were issued citations. He offered that with three ABC inspectors for 1,400 licenses statewide, "we" are probably not citing all of the bars that need to be cited. The whole state is going to benefit from this, he said, and Anchorage would benefit from not having the traffic flow out to Wasilla until 5 a.m. He said he is in support of the bill. Number 2351 CHAIR MURKOWSKI reminded members that the proposed CS had been adopted previously, and the hours [contained in the proposed CS] conform to those in the Anchorage area: 3 a.m. closure on the weekend, and 2:30 a.m. during the week. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT cautioned members on the data presented from the Wasilla Police Department because it doesn't indicate when the arrests occurred. And he suggested that when looking at the time span from June to January [on the committee's handout], referring to the 19 men and 5 women arrested who were Anchorage residents, these had occurred while coming home from a fishing trip. He said it would be clearer if there were convincing evidence that the arrests occurred between the hours of 3 and 5 a.m.; however, that data isn't contained in the document. Number 2284 REPRESENTATIVE HAYES stated that in looking at the data and in hearing the testimony, this sounds like an "Anchorage-area-type problem," and to impose a law across the state that addresses one area's situation is problematic. He said the committee saw a sample of the bar closure hours from a handout entitled "Cities That Have Adopted Ordinances Under AS 04.16.010 to Restrict Hours of Sale," and a lot of the big communities did change their bar hours. He recalled that Mr. Felix testified that this would help communities because they don't have the political will to make these changes; however, Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan, Nome, and the North Slope have made these changes. He said he doesn't feel that the argument is that strong and it is a local-control issue. Number 2249 REPRESENTATIVE HAYES offered Amendment 1, 22-LS0290\A.1, Ford, 3/22/01, which reads [although the amendment was drafted for the original bill, it was being applied to the proposed CS]: Page 1, lines 6 - 7: Delete "alcoholic beverage on premises licensed under this title between the hours of 2:00 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. each day." Insert "alcoholic beverage on premises licensed under this title between the hours of (1) 3:30 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on Saturday or Sunday; and (2) 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on every other day of the week [EACH DAY]." Page 1, lines 10 - 11: Delete "alcoholic beverages on the licensed premises between the hours of 2:00 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. each day." Insert "alcoholic beverages on the licensed premises between the hours of (1) 3:30 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on Saturday or Sunday; and (2) 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on every other day of the week [EACH DAY]." Page 1, line 14: Delete "2:00" Insert "(1) 3:30" Page 2, line 1: Delete "each day" Insert "on Saturday or Sunday; and (2) 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on every other day of the week [EACH DAY]" REPRESENTATIVE HAYES explained that the bar hours changed in the Fairbanks North Star Borough because of a drunk driving incident in which a person was seriously injured and subsequently committed suicide. Because of this, he said, the bar closure hours were changed to 2 a.m. on weekdays and 3:30 a.m. on weekends. [Fairbanks] had a borough-wide vote on this issue, and the citizens decided that this is what they wanted, and now this legislation conforms to Anchorage bar hours. He remarked that the whole state isn't tied to the Municipality of Anchorage. Number 2186 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO objected to Amendment 1. REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked for clarification that the committee has previously adopted the Anchorage bar closure hours, and is now discussing the 10 a.m. bar opening hour. CHAIR MURKOWSKI responded that the existing statute has the bar opening hours at 8 a.m., and Anchorage bar opening hours are 10 a.m. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES clarified that Amendment 1 addresses the closing times, not the opening times. Number 2121 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he would oppose Amendment 1; however, if the sponsor would support the bill on the floor, he said he would be more "friendly to it." He said he would like to keep the bill as written. REPRESENTATIVE KOTT offered a conceptual amendment to Amendment 1 to change the bar opening hours from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. Number 2080 REPRESENTATIVE HAYES responded that he would be amenable to that. CHAIR MURKOWSKI explained that the conceptual amendment would change lines 5, 13, and 23 to 10 a.m. There being no objection to the conceptual amendment to Amendment 1, it was adopted. CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked for a roll call vote on Amendment 1 as amended. Representatives Meyer, Kott, Rokeberg, Crawford, and Hayes voted in favor of the amendment; Representatives Murkowski and Halcro voted in opposition. Therefore, Amendment 1 as amended was adopted by a vote of 5-2. CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that will the adoption of Amendment 1, the new hours would be from 10 a.m. to 3:30 a.m. on weekends and 10 a.m. to 2 a.m. during the week. Number 1966 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified that the hours of operation in Anchorage have been restricted from 2:30 a.m. to 2 a.m. REPRESENTATIVE MEYER explained that he understood that the bars in Anchorage close at 2 a.m. during the week anyway, so he didn't think it would be a problem. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN added that bar operation hours in Wasilla now are 8 a.m. to 5 a.m. Number 1830 CHAIR MURKOWSKI commented that everyone has said that this should be a local option, including the sponsor himself. Even given that, she explained, sometimes the right thing isn't done. She said she had come full circle on the bill, and is now convinced by the data. REPRESENTATIVE HAYES stated that he is still interested in getting the package store information, because it is relevant to this discussion and to the discussion revolving around reducing the package store hours. CHAIR MURKOWSKI indicated that Representative Hayes makes a good point and said the committee will ask for that information from the ABC Board. She said hopefully Mr. Griffen would be able to provide that to the House Finance Committee. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to "Title 10.50.010 (a)," where it explains package stores hours. This is already in state law, he pointed out and they aren't open until 5 a.m. Number 1702 REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO made a motion to move the CS for HB 80 [Version 22-LS0290\C, Ford, 3/8/01] as amended from committee with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHB 80(L&C) moved from the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
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